Curse

Fernando Vidigal · Jun 27, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Hello,

i think that would be great have a samurai in professions. Think in that for the next GW game.

David Lionmaster · Jun 27, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I highly doubt they would have a samurai profession in the next chapter since it isn't going to be asian themed. Plus it would basically be the same thing as a warrior.

Next time you post an idea for a class you should add some details about it, such as attributes, weapons, skills, etc.

BahamutKaiser · Jun 27, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Seeing as there have been complete samurai suggestions made in the past, posting nothing more than a, I like Samurai, with no description, is rather pointless.

If you want to support a Samurai Class, go to the class suggestion archive and bump my suggestion...... otherwise, at least make a pole so people can vote whether or not they like samurai.

Lets Get to Healing · Jun 27, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Already a Samurai thread . .. . look in the build suggestion thread.

Kaguya · Jun 27, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Samurai would just be another warrior anyways. Just grab a katana from Factions, and the more oriental styled armor and gogo

Alcazanar · Jun 27, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Read this to get a samurai

1. get a Warrior and make him lvl 20
2. make him Assassin second class
3. craft your katana
4. complete the game
5. craft canthan 15k

dye armor red and voila you got your samurai

lightblade · Jun 27, 2006, 08:13 AM // 08:13

ugh..can we stop with this culture exclusive characters?

GW's profession that is all general profession that can be combined with other profession to make a specific class, like the paladin w/mo

Oh yea, speaking of culture exclusive characters...what about...

Crusaders?
Chu-ko-nu?
Huskarl?
Teutonic Knight?
Cataphract?
Mangudai?
Tarkan?

BahamutKaiser · Jun 28, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

The thing about samurai is that it is so intensive that it draws an identity unique from something like a warrior.

The use of an elegant sword focusing on technique and speed over strength and breaking power makes Samurai very different, the use of 2 hands on a medium sword for a more accurate attack rather than a huge sword in one hand for bashing power is rather unique, very few european swordsmen stress 2 hands on a weapon which could easily be wielded by one, and either use one hand on a light sword, or 2 hands on a basher.

Samurai is certainly the most famous type of warrior, other warriors of just about any other culture are simply seen as another kind of warrior, but Samurai are so renoun that people don't even consider them warriors, their identity seems seperate. The intense code of honor and the belief that a samurai katana is the samurai soul and not just a tool is enough to set a samurai apart.

I have made a class suggestion for Samurai in the past, and I intend to make another one soon. I have been reading history about samurai and about the martial arts dedicated to samurai, I intend to make an idea that incoperates more than one attribute around the use of a real katana, and not just a tachi, which is what we really have in the game.

Note that the identity of a katana involves the sheath, which is worn in a sash, blade up, without the sash and sheath, a sword of katana length is basicly a tachi. The treatment of the katana and belief that a Samurai soul rest in their katana is what gives their sword meaning, and what makes Samurai different then just about any Warrior.

draxynnic · Jun 28, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

The thing about samurai is that it is so intensive that it draws an identity unique from something like a warrior.

The use of an elegant sword focusing on technique and speed over strength and breaking power makes Samurai very different, the use of 2 hands on a medium sword for a more accurate attack rather than a huge sword in one hand for bashing power is rather unique, very few european swordsmen stress 2 hands on a weapon which could easily be wielded by one, and either use one hand on a light sword, or 2 hands on a basher.

Samurai is certainly the most famous type of warrior, other warriors of just about any other culture are simply seen as another kind of warrior, but Samurai are so renoun that people don't even consider them warriors, their identity seems seperate. The intense code of honor and the belief that a samurai katana is the samurai soul and not just a tool is enough to set a samurai apart.

I have made a class suggestion for Samurai in the past, and I intend to make another one soon. I have been reading history about samurai and about the martial arts dedicated to samurai, I intend to make an idea that incoperates more than one attribute around the use of a real katana, and not just a tachi, which is what we really have in the game.

Note that the identity of a katana involves the sheath, which is worn in a sash, blade up, without the sash and sheath, a sword of katana length is basicly a tachi. The treatment of the katana and belief that a Samurai soul rest in their katana is what gives their sword meaning, and what makes Samurai different then just about any Warrior.

And the real difference between this and a knight is time - the samurai tradition lasted closer to the present day and have more mysticism built around them than knightly traditions simply because the time in which they were revered in their home culture was more recent (in fact, doing a spot of research, it appears that the katana was only developed from the tachi in the 1400s, not long before knights started falling out of favour in Europe). Back in their day, knights had similar mysticisms surrounding them as samurai, it's just that time has allowed the (entirely incorrect) concept to develop of the knight who clumsily bashes at armour that's so heavy they can barely move. According to some historical studies I've seen, knightly martial traditions were just as deep as those of samurai. They just haven't been preserved as well. If you did the research and found examples of other aristocratic warrior castes in history, you'll probably find the same thing - the Spartans come to mind.

Furthermore, your argument to me seems to be good reason NOT to implement the samurai as a specific class. Basically, your argument can be boiled down to "yes, the samurai is a warrior, but the cultural background makes it different". In order for samurai to be different, you need the cultural background to back it up - incidentally labelling whichever culture has them as Japanese or pseudo-Japanese - something which Guild Wars seems to be avoiding (cultures seem to have general themes rather than being based on any specific nation)

In fact, your argument suggests to me one change that should be made: Rename every 'katana' in the game to 'tachi'. Otherwise, samurai-like fighting styles can be approximated by employing skills more oriented to finesse than brute force - Sever Artery, Riposte, and so on - potentially with a Ranger secondary to represent the relative importance of archery in samurai traditions, although I'd admit this is probably not the best use of attribute points. True, the two-handed sword fighting style is missing, but this is an issue that has been discussed before - there was a limit to the number of weapon styles that could be implemented, and that happened to be one that was dropped.

Still, we go back to the main point: How is a samurai not a warrior? Admittedly, a warrior that has a very special role in their home culture and a special set of beliefs, but in terms of game mechanics, I don't really see how a samurai tanking a mob for you or taking pieces out of your team's Monk is really any different from a Warrior doing the same apart from their skills - which if we accept the proposal that samurai are a special breed of Warrior could have been added to the latter with much less effort than introducing a whole new class.

Ultimately, boiling each class down to it's bare bones, we have:

Warrior: Wears armour, hits things with sharp and blunt implements.
Samurai: Wears armour*, hits things with sharp implements.

Addition to the game by adding samurai: Not much.
Cost to the game by same: Tying a chapter to a specific culture (yes, assassins are a bit ninja-ish, but that's probably simply because ninjas are the best-known image of assassins, not the other way around), and the possible loss of another profession which would have added more to the game.

To finish off, to quote your final statement again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

The treatment of the katana and belief that a Samurai soul rest in their katana is what gives their sword meaning, and what makes Samurai different then just about any Warrior.

You're basing the argument for a new profession on an intangible. Yes, it's an interesting cultural note, but does it really make the role of a samurai any different? No, the samurai is just a warrior with a specific set of beliefs. By that argument, should the White Mantle not have a completely different healing class** than Monks because they don't believe in the Old Gods?

*Historically, samurai armour generally wasn't as heavy as typical European armour, but that said, samurai who acquired pieces of European armour certainly didn't universally turn their noses up at it either. I'd say rules-wise it's more the difference between using Glad's over Sentinel's (and the appropriate stats and skills for the fighting styles you would use with each armour).

**[SPOILER]Actually, in this case I'd be tempted to say yes - given the powers Mursaat appear to have to manipulate souls, Ritualists (not the White Mantle necromancers) would probably be more appropriate. [/SPOILER] But the point still stands - in fact, you'd expect beliefs to have a stronger effect on magical professions than martial ones.

actionjack · Jun 28, 2006, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Could always make it into a CCC (Concept Class Challenge, as I coined it), where challenge people to make a decent and possibly fitting concept class. (regardless of the possiblity of it adding into the game)

The challenge would be, of couse, to make them unique and differnt from a War or Assa. There is no need to make another warrior clone, but the attraction of a Samurai, as well as the things it could draw on, should allow it to be seperate enough. While its functional role would probably be still similar to that of a warrior, but it should be differnt like a War/Monk tanker is differnt from a Earth Elm/War Tanker.

So write up a smaurai concept class, best with some detail skills and new playing mechanics.

Nevin · Jun 28, 2006, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

ugh..can we stop with this culture exclusive characters?

GW's profession that is all general profession that can be combined with other profession to make a specific class, like the paladin w/mo

Oh yea, speaking of culture exclusive characters...what about...

Crusaders?
Chu-ko-nu?
Huskarl?
Teutonic Knight?
Cataphract?
Mangudai?
Tarkan?

Go back to playing Age of Empires II